1 00:00:14,950 --> 00:00:16,340 - Welcome to this webinar. 2 00:00:16,340 --> 00:00:19,380 I'm Erika Hewitt and I'm about to ask our two guests 3 00:00:19,380 --> 00:00:20,540 to introduce themselves. 4 00:00:20,540 --> 00:00:21,380 I will just say 5 00:00:21,380 --> 00:00:25,830 that I serve the Unitarian Universalist Association 6 00:00:25,830 --> 00:00:28,800 as the Minister of Worship Arts. 7 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,450 I serve half-time in that capacity 8 00:00:31,450 --> 00:00:33,630 and I have enough flexibility 9 00:00:33,630 --> 00:00:37,280 to be able to respond to questions that arise 10 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:40,210 which is why I have assembled these religious leaders. 11 00:00:40,210 --> 00:00:43,920 I should also say my pronouns are he hers. 12 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,793 I'd love the two of you to please introduce yourselves. 13 00:00:47,910 --> 00:00:48,900 - I'm Aisha Hauser 14 00:00:48,900 --> 00:00:51,060 and currently I live in Seattle, Washington, 15 00:00:51,060 --> 00:00:52,830 and I'm the Director of Lifelong Learning 16 00:00:52,830 --> 00:00:54,550 at East Shore Unitarian Church. 17 00:00:54,550 --> 00:00:57,470 It's my, I don't know if it's my 16th or 17th year 18 00:00:57,470 --> 00:00:58,950 as a religious educator. 19 00:00:58,950 --> 00:01:01,700 I've served three congregations and the UUA. 20 00:01:01,700 --> 00:01:03,650 I've written curriculum. 21 00:01:03,650 --> 00:01:06,560 I'm actually the, if the vote goes well, 22 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:07,530 the incoming President 23 00:01:07,530 --> 00:01:09,650 of the Liberal Religious Educators Association. 24 00:01:09,650 --> 00:01:12,630 I'll be President-elect in June at general assembly 25 00:01:12,630 --> 00:01:14,350 which is in a week and a half. 26 00:01:14,350 --> 00:01:18,030 O-M-G so that's all I'll say about that. 27 00:01:18,030 --> 00:01:19,521 And my pronouns are she her. 28 00:01:19,521 --> 00:01:20,880 Julica. 29 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:22,900 - I'm Julica Hermann de la Fuente. 30 00:01:22,900 --> 00:01:25,440 I currently live in Williamston, Michigan, 31 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:27,390 just outside of Lansing, 32 00:01:27,390 --> 00:01:30,110 and I am a Lay Community Minister 33 00:01:30,110 --> 00:01:31,970 and a Ministerial Candidate 34 00:01:31,970 --> 00:01:35,320 and the incoming intern for the UUMA 35 00:01:35,320 --> 00:01:39,140 as I continue my complicated path to ordination, 36 00:01:39,140 --> 00:01:43,360 and my ministry is to do anti-racism work 37 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:46,540 with religious professionals, with lay leaders, 38 00:01:46,540 --> 00:01:48,610 with Unitarian Universalism in general, 39 00:01:48,610 --> 00:01:50,710 and get us to that place 40 00:01:50,710 --> 00:01:54,030 to close the gap between what we say and what we do. 41 00:01:54,030 --> 00:01:56,060 That is my ministry, 42 00:01:56,060 --> 00:01:57,790 and I'm excited to have this conversation. 43 00:01:57,790 --> 00:02:00,090 I'm really curious to figure out what I think. 44 00:02:02,030 --> 00:02:05,247 - So here's the conversation I invite you to have, 45 00:02:05,247 --> 00:02:08,720 and I hope to just pipe in with questions 46 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:12,810 or to maybe reframe things. 47 00:02:12,810 --> 00:02:15,180 The most common question 48 00:02:15,180 --> 00:02:18,170 or request that I receive at WorshipWeb 49 00:02:18,170 --> 00:02:21,460 is from the people who have very good intentions. 50 00:02:21,460 --> 00:02:23,140 They know that we aspire 51 00:02:23,140 --> 00:02:26,990 to be a multicultural and anti-racist movement, 52 00:02:26,990 --> 00:02:31,990 and what they want in worship is to reflect the voices 53 00:02:33,060 --> 00:02:36,370 and the work and the gifts of people of color. 54 00:02:36,370 --> 00:02:39,230 So some worship leaders, clergy or not, 55 00:02:39,230 --> 00:02:43,100 are intentionally trying to include at least one, 56 00:02:43,100 --> 00:02:45,510 preferably more, person of color 57 00:02:45,510 --> 00:02:48,150 in the content of their liturgy. 58 00:02:48,150 --> 00:02:52,603 So toward that end as a goal I often receive the question, 59 00:02:53,547 --> 00:02:57,677 "Why don't you make it possible for me to look on WorshipWeb 60 00:02:57,677 --> 00:03:01,627 "and just find the authors who are people of color? 61 00:03:01,627 --> 00:03:04,917 "It would make it so much easier 62 00:03:04,917 --> 00:03:08,487 "and I don't understand why you're not doing this 63 00:03:08,487 --> 00:03:11,847 "if we're trying to be anti-racist and multicultural." 64 00:03:12,920 --> 00:03:17,310 So there's the question I invite you to tackle 65 00:03:17,310 --> 00:03:19,003 from your different perspectives. 66 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:21,980 - So I think it's a good question. 67 00:03:21,980 --> 00:03:24,617 I also, I guess when we had just spoken I thought, 68 00:03:24,617 --> 00:03:27,177 "Well is the assumption that there aren't any people 69 00:03:27,177 --> 00:03:29,217 "of color already on WorshipWeb, 70 00:03:29,217 --> 00:03:31,823 "and what is it about our denomination 71 00:03:31,823 --> 00:03:36,560 "that folks are ignorant about who the?" 72 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:37,440 First of all there aren't many 73 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,700 in religious leadership compared to the white folks, 74 00:03:40,700 --> 00:03:44,330 so what is going on for folks who are leading worship, 75 00:03:44,330 --> 00:03:47,730 whether lay or ordained, that what they want to do 76 00:03:47,730 --> 00:03:50,479 is a quick search on WorshipWeb 77 00:03:50,479 --> 00:03:52,400 rather than build relationships 78 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:56,760 and really do more intense, 79 00:03:57,810 --> 00:04:02,810 or not intense, but more intentional relationship building 80 00:04:02,870 --> 00:04:03,910 on a different scale 81 00:04:03,910 --> 00:04:05,820 rather than just wanting to do a quick search 82 00:04:05,820 --> 00:04:06,870 which frankly is shallow. 83 00:04:06,870 --> 00:04:09,770 It's like learning about racism by getting a black friend. 84 00:04:10,890 --> 00:04:12,110 To me it's missing. 85 00:04:12,110 --> 00:04:13,560 So Julica, what do you think? 86 00:04:14,730 --> 00:04:17,910 - I guess the first thing that comes up for me is why. 87 00:04:17,910 --> 00:04:19,260 Why do you need this? 88 00:04:19,260 --> 00:04:21,190 Like what is motivating that? 89 00:04:21,190 --> 00:04:25,970 Because I think there's a commitment to inclusivity, 90 00:04:25,970 --> 00:04:27,520 I understand that. 91 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:31,920 I want to make sure that my liturgy has people of color, 92 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:33,100 the voices of people of color, 93 00:04:33,100 --> 00:04:35,150 the lived experiences of people of color. 94 00:04:36,350 --> 00:04:38,020 I think that there's a intention 95 00:04:38,020 --> 00:04:40,363 but I think that there are otherwise, 96 00:04:41,410 --> 00:04:43,750 underneath that or connected to that, 97 00:04:43,750 --> 00:04:46,780 so I want to make sure I'm doing it right. 98 00:04:46,780 --> 00:04:49,970 I want to have a list I can check off. 99 00:04:49,970 --> 00:04:53,540 So do I have one Black person, one Latinx, 100 00:04:53,540 --> 00:04:55,310 one Arab-American, one? 101 00:04:55,310 --> 00:05:00,310 You know it just, there's something about the need for that 102 00:05:01,030 --> 00:05:05,730 that makes me wonder what else is behind that request, 103 00:05:05,730 --> 00:05:07,750 and it also makes me think of the difference 104 00:05:07,750 --> 00:05:11,970 between a multicultural commitment 105 00:05:11,970 --> 00:05:15,060 that can sometimes be a appropriative 106 00:05:15,060 --> 00:05:20,060 and can be like I'm going to make sure 107 00:05:21,573 --> 00:05:24,930 that my people have access to other cultures 108 00:05:24,930 --> 00:05:26,900 but we're gonna consume those cultures 109 00:05:26,900 --> 00:05:28,520 or incorporate those cultures 110 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,500 into our liturgy or our worship 111 00:05:31,500 --> 00:05:33,920 as opposed to an anti-racist commitment 112 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:37,350 which is about how do we change our systems 113 00:05:37,350 --> 00:05:41,710 to make sure that we are creating a container 114 00:05:41,710 --> 00:05:46,710 and an experience that speaks to the folks in the margins. 115 00:05:46,830 --> 00:05:47,730 You know that meme 116 00:05:47,730 --> 00:05:49,960 that was going around on Facebook recently 117 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,660 about there's a difference between you are welcome here 118 00:05:52,660 --> 00:05:54,063 and we built this for you, 119 00:05:55,190 --> 00:05:57,230 and I think that that might be a little bit 120 00:05:57,230 --> 00:05:59,310 of what's happening here, like we want to make sure 121 00:05:59,310 --> 00:06:01,720 that people are included and that they feel welcome 122 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:03,773 because the voices are there. 123 00:06:05,900 --> 00:06:10,693 When it feels like it's tokenizing. 124 00:06:11,940 --> 00:06:12,773 - Yes. 125 00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:16,840 I want to respond to a couple of those things 126 00:06:16,840 --> 00:06:19,183 and just see how this fits in. 127 00:06:22,070 --> 00:06:23,430 First of all I'm White. 128 00:06:23,430 --> 00:06:26,530 I'm the only White person in this webinar, 129 00:06:26,530 --> 00:06:30,120 and so if you watching this right now are White, 130 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:32,950 I just wanna name the term White fragility, 131 00:06:32,950 --> 00:06:36,000 those feelings that we get of but, but, but, 132 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:37,020 but I mean well, 133 00:06:37,020 --> 00:06:39,810 so if you are watching this at some point in time 134 00:06:39,810 --> 00:06:42,347 and you're starting to notice the voices of, 135 00:06:42,347 --> 00:06:43,857 "But I try so hard," 136 00:06:45,090 --> 00:06:47,100 this is about all of us making it. 137 00:06:47,100 --> 00:06:48,277 The Reverend Theresa Soto says, 138 00:06:48,277 --> 00:06:50,177 "All of us need all of us to make it." 139 00:06:51,870 --> 00:06:56,150 So this is not about if you feel that defensiveness, 140 00:06:56,150 --> 00:06:58,463 let it go, keep listening, keep being curious, 141 00:06:59,670 --> 00:07:00,710 and I will say 142 00:07:00,710 --> 00:07:04,930 that I have obviously over the past few years talked 143 00:07:04,930 --> 00:07:06,080 to many people of color 144 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:08,277 who have their work on WorshipWeb and I have asked them, 145 00:07:08,277 --> 00:07:10,100 "How would this feel?" 146 00:07:10,100 --> 00:07:12,127 and Julica you're saying, 147 00:07:12,127 --> 00:07:17,127 "It would feel like I'm a box that's being checked off," 148 00:07:17,530 --> 00:07:19,523 is a very common response. 149 00:07:20,510 --> 00:07:24,630 So thank you for that and thank you Aisha 150 00:07:24,630 --> 00:07:27,817 for your very first question which is, 151 00:07:27,817 --> 00:07:30,257 "You don't know these people's names? 152 00:07:30,257 --> 00:07:31,697 "You don't know their names? 153 00:07:31,697 --> 00:07:33,848 "You don't recognize these names?" 154 00:07:33,848 --> 00:07:37,633 as for example Black professional leaders. 155 00:07:39,820 --> 00:07:43,420 So let's continue the conversation and I'll, 156 00:07:43,420 --> 00:07:45,900 maybe both of you can expand on that. 157 00:07:45,900 --> 00:07:48,540 - Well one of the things I was thinking is, 158 00:07:48,540 --> 00:07:50,550 so there's the work of Mark Morrison-Reed, 159 00:07:50,550 --> 00:07:51,437 and Rosemary Bray McNatt, 160 00:07:51,437 --> 00:07:54,000 and Sofia Betancourt, and Bill Sinkford, 161 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:58,330 so to not have at least read those folks 162 00:07:58,330 --> 00:08:03,330 who are widely published indicates to me exactly 163 00:08:03,350 --> 00:08:06,753 what Julica was getting to that this is shallow. 164 00:08:08,690 --> 00:08:10,710 I'm using the word shallow for lack of a better word 165 00:08:10,710 --> 00:08:11,800 but it's incomplete, 166 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:16,800 it's an incomplete part way to incorporate 167 00:08:16,810 --> 00:08:18,630 who we say we wanna be as a faith, 168 00:08:18,630 --> 00:08:20,860 and work toward anti-racism 169 00:08:20,860 --> 00:08:23,030 and genuine we built this with you in mind. 170 00:08:23,030 --> 00:08:23,973 I love that meme. 171 00:08:25,330 --> 00:08:29,340 And so it's gonna take time, 172 00:08:29,340 --> 00:08:31,530 to read "Darkening the Doorways" 173 00:08:31,530 --> 00:08:33,170 and to do the research, 174 00:08:33,170 --> 00:08:34,950 and that's okay, take the time. 175 00:08:34,950 --> 00:08:37,880 It will be more meaningful even within the context 176 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:40,520 of the worship in which you wanna include this. 177 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:42,520 You will have more comprehensive, 178 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,060 it will enrich your worship 'cause it may change exactly, 179 00:08:45,060 --> 00:08:46,760 instead of just a White-centered worship 180 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:48,830 with polka dots of Black readings, 181 00:08:48,830 --> 00:08:51,290 or Brown readings from folks, you've now, 182 00:08:51,290 --> 00:08:55,230 it will change how you even do this is my response. 183 00:08:55,230 --> 00:08:58,710 - Yes, yes because if I wanna search really quickly 184 00:08:58,710 --> 00:09:01,180 for an African-American reading 185 00:09:01,180 --> 00:09:03,563 to add to my sermon sandwich, 186 00:09:04,680 --> 00:09:08,440 then I'm still doing the White Protestant worship, 187 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:10,900 I'm still doing the thing that we're comfortable with 188 00:09:10,900 --> 00:09:13,140 and I'm still taking these thoughts 189 00:09:13,140 --> 00:09:14,760 and intellectualizing them. 190 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,570 When really like, and we've had these conversations 191 00:09:17,570 --> 00:09:20,480 on other webinars but it bears repeating, 192 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:23,120 what I want is to be able to move my body in worship. 193 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:26,840 What I want to be able is to sing and pray and weep, 194 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:28,500 and that is not going to happen 195 00:09:28,500 --> 00:09:33,500 when I can identify my Latinx people in WorshipWeb, 196 00:09:35,410 --> 00:09:36,740 which by the way I don't need to 197 00:09:36,740 --> 00:09:38,650 because I do know who the Latinx people are, 198 00:09:38,650 --> 00:09:43,650 but like that's, I think it's about going beyond 199 00:09:44,290 --> 00:09:49,120 the basic commitment of representation. 200 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:51,050 I think we are well beyond that. 201 00:09:51,050 --> 00:09:54,520 I think we need to be well beyond that, 202 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,710 and for those of you who are listening 203 00:09:57,710 --> 00:10:00,210 for whom that feels a stretch, that's okay. 204 00:10:00,210 --> 00:10:01,860 I invite you into that stretch. 205 00:10:01,860 --> 00:10:03,893 I invite you to skip this step. 206 00:10:05,170 --> 00:10:09,480 Don't go to the place where you just insert your hymns 207 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:11,700 or your readings or whatever. 208 00:10:11,700 --> 00:10:14,690 Skip that step and go to a different type of liturgy 209 00:10:14,690 --> 00:10:16,323 and a different type of worship 210 00:10:16,323 --> 00:10:20,473 that invites you to challenge what feels comfortable. 211 00:10:21,420 --> 00:10:24,090 So how is White supremacy culture playing 212 00:10:24,090 --> 00:10:25,880 in your worship planning? 213 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,430 - And so is "Centering," read the book "Centering." 214 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:33,370 The information's out there, nothing is hidden. 215 00:10:33,370 --> 00:10:34,710 Take the time to read. 216 00:10:34,710 --> 00:10:35,740 Take the time to do your homework. 217 00:10:35,740 --> 00:10:37,730 Seriously, and then it'll just be a much like you, 218 00:10:37,730 --> 00:10:42,080 just a much richer embodiment and a much richer experience, 219 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:43,343 and much more faithful. 220 00:10:45,450 --> 00:10:49,770 - May I ask a question about what each of you just said 221 00:10:49,770 --> 00:10:51,620 and where this conversation is going? 222 00:10:53,601 --> 00:10:54,700 - Yeah go for it. - So I know this 223 00:10:54,700 --> 00:10:57,140 is not what Julica meant. 224 00:10:57,140 --> 00:10:59,360 I think what I heard Julica suggesting 225 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:04,350 is that we're still trying to create a paradigm shift 226 00:11:04,350 --> 00:11:08,500 in worship and do away with the structures 227 00:11:08,500 --> 00:11:10,253 that we think are a necessity. 228 00:11:12,950 --> 00:11:16,480 I think what I'm going to sort of voice out loud 229 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:17,813 is sort of a middle step, 230 00:11:18,890 --> 00:11:23,890 and tell me Julica if this feels closer 231 00:11:23,970 --> 00:11:27,143 or if it feels like not getting it. 232 00:11:28,420 --> 00:11:31,810 Let's say instead of saying, "Well here's my sermon," 233 00:11:31,810 --> 00:11:34,510 which is the meat of the service, the core of the service, 234 00:11:34,510 --> 00:11:38,460 and now I'm gonna go and garnish it with things 235 00:11:38,460 --> 00:11:41,513 from people of color to try to fit it and meet the theme, 236 00:11:42,770 --> 00:11:47,130 what if I can't wholesale change up the whole liturgy 237 00:11:47,130 --> 00:11:50,270 and make this sea change really quickly, 238 00:11:50,270 --> 00:11:52,897 what if instead of thinking, 239 00:11:52,897 --> 00:11:56,327 "Well I'm gonna lead with this sermon or homily 240 00:11:56,327 --> 00:11:59,207 "or this message from my perspective and sort of garnish it 241 00:11:59,207 --> 00:12:02,067 "and pad it with other people's experiences, 242 00:12:02,067 --> 00:12:03,430 "lived experiences," 243 00:12:03,430 --> 00:12:04,667 what if it's more of a, 244 00:12:04,667 --> 00:12:06,527 "Hmmm, I'm committing to read 245 00:12:06,527 --> 00:12:11,527 "some of these foundational texts that Aisha has mentioned, 246 00:12:11,917 --> 00:12:13,827 "Bill Sinkford, Mark Morrison-Reed, 247 00:12:13,827 --> 00:12:16,340 "Rosemary Bray McNatt, Sofia Betancourt," 248 00:12:16,340 --> 00:12:20,680 and see how it would feel to center some of that 249 00:12:20,680 --> 00:12:21,743 and not necessarily, 250 00:12:24,500 --> 00:12:27,220 instead of pushing the liturgical elements 251 00:12:27,220 --> 00:12:28,110 out to the margins. 252 00:12:28,110 --> 00:12:30,130 Does that make sense? 253 00:12:30,130 --> 00:12:31,740 - Yeah I think that's right. 254 00:12:31,740 --> 00:12:34,010 I like the way that you're saying garnishing 255 00:12:34,010 --> 00:12:35,280 because I think that is the, 256 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:37,450 what we're trying to move away from, 257 00:12:37,450 --> 00:12:40,150 but I guess I would push it in a different direction 258 00:12:40,150 --> 00:12:42,790 which is what would it be like 259 00:12:42,790 --> 00:12:44,993 to co-create worship with congregants? 260 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:48,063 What would it be like to share, 261 00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:51,880 as I understand it, 262 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:54,980 and yes I have not completed my ministerial studies 263 00:12:54,980 --> 00:12:56,790 so maybe I don't understand it completely, 264 00:12:56,790 --> 00:12:58,440 but the way that I understand it 265 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:03,440 is once upon a time ministers were the few people 266 00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:08,050 who went to college, like way back when. 267 00:13:08,050 --> 00:13:10,770 College is a place where ministers got trained 268 00:13:10,770 --> 00:13:14,520 and became educated in a classical sense, 269 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:18,150 and then in the pulpit they educated their people. 270 00:13:18,150 --> 00:13:20,710 It was a transmission of knowledge. 271 00:13:20,710 --> 00:13:22,557 It was like this sort of, 272 00:13:22,557 --> 00:13:25,617 "I'm gonna use this pulpit and this space 273 00:13:25,617 --> 00:13:29,600 "to tell my people how to be better in the world," 274 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:32,780 but that is part of a banking model of education 275 00:13:32,780 --> 00:13:35,160 and part of a colonialist framework 276 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:37,660 and part of a bunch of ways of being 277 00:13:37,660 --> 00:13:41,770 that assumes that the people in the pews know nothing, 278 00:13:41,770 --> 00:13:44,210 need to be educated, need to be restrained, 279 00:13:44,210 --> 00:13:46,770 need to be civilized. 280 00:13:46,770 --> 00:13:50,260 I mean there's a bunch of racist stuff going on there too. 281 00:13:50,260 --> 00:13:51,960 - Curse of intellectualism. 282 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:54,670 - Right, and so I'm not anti-clerical. 283 00:13:54,670 --> 00:13:57,360 I would not be pursuing the path to ordination 284 00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:58,550 if I was anti-clerical, 285 00:13:58,550 --> 00:14:01,620 but I do think that the calling is actually 286 00:14:01,620 --> 00:14:06,620 to help people collectively find our we message, 287 00:14:07,210 --> 00:14:10,670 like what is it that we are trying to tell each other 288 00:14:10,670 --> 00:14:14,640 every Sunday or Wednesday or whenever 289 00:14:15,500 --> 00:14:17,810 that helps us maintain our faith 290 00:14:19,046 --> 00:14:21,290 and helps us maintain our good work in the world. 291 00:14:21,290 --> 00:14:25,113 And so when we are collectively creating worship, 292 00:14:26,210 --> 00:14:28,863 then our text is our lived experience, 293 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,560 and the different congregants in our midst 294 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:37,910 are the ones that are giving us what, you know, 295 00:14:37,910 --> 00:14:40,480 and then the readings and the other things that we do 296 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:44,243 to complement that, that's the garnish. 297 00:14:46,375 --> 00:14:48,200 Yeah, what do you think Aisha? 298 00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:49,900 Am I making any sense? 299 00:14:49,900 --> 00:14:51,200 - Well yes. 300 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:52,950 For years I said the minister 301 00:14:52,950 --> 00:14:55,850 is not the only learned man in the village anymore. 302 00:14:55,850 --> 00:14:57,180 That's exactly something, 303 00:14:57,180 --> 00:14:59,270 I mean to me I've said for a while, 304 00:14:59,270 --> 00:15:03,110 that you use, for the faith that we are on paper, 305 00:15:03,110 --> 00:15:04,990 we lack imagination when it comes 306 00:15:04,990 --> 00:15:07,190 to how we affirm leadership in general, 307 00:15:07,190 --> 00:15:09,060 and it's too limiting, and we don't need, 308 00:15:09,060 --> 00:15:11,900 especially because we don't sell heaven or hell. 309 00:15:11,900 --> 00:15:14,010 I say sell obviously facetiously 310 00:15:14,010 --> 00:15:17,840 but it feels like there are many paths 311 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,900 to how we embrace and embody Unitary Universalism 312 00:15:20,900 --> 00:15:22,650 and one of the beautiful things 313 00:15:22,650 --> 00:15:26,230 about UU World the new edition 314 00:15:26,230 --> 00:15:31,230 is how many folks are trans siblings, non-binary siblings, 315 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:33,700 who spoke for and gave us the gift 316 00:15:36,405 --> 00:15:38,480 of understanding our faith better, 317 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,061 and again that takes time and work. 318 00:15:41,061 --> 00:15:43,330 It's not about meeting some Sunday deadline 319 00:15:43,330 --> 00:15:44,640 because Sunday at nine o'clock 320 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,840 or Wednesday evening at 7:00 this thing has to happen, 321 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:51,203 it's how are we embodying who we are as a faith. 322 00:15:55,455 --> 00:15:57,690 And the other thing that started happening more and more, 323 00:15:57,690 --> 00:15:58,993 especially after, 324 00:16:00,470 --> 00:16:02,470 I mean I'm not gonna say especially after the teaching, 325 00:16:02,470 --> 00:16:04,780 but I think it became wider after the teaching, 326 00:16:04,780 --> 00:16:08,340 is learning about folks like Frances Ellen Watkins Harper 327 00:16:08,340 --> 00:16:12,010 and Ethelred Brown and especially Black people 328 00:16:12,010 --> 00:16:13,870 who were Unitarians and Universalists 329 00:16:13,870 --> 00:16:18,100 but were not really spoken about in the way 330 00:16:18,100 --> 00:16:19,560 that I've at least noticed, 331 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,600 or maybe that's just me noticing it. 332 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:27,090 But you know erasing people doesn't serve us, 333 00:16:27,090 --> 00:16:28,950 and that's true even now. 334 00:16:28,950 --> 00:16:30,770 So to get back to even the original question, 335 00:16:30,770 --> 00:16:33,820 simply looking for folks or wanting to search, 336 00:16:33,820 --> 00:16:35,600 how would that, I mean I'm just even trying, 337 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,040 how would that even work? 338 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,520 African-American author, Latinx author, 339 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:41,503 Latinx trans author, like why would we? 340 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,170 Ew, it just made me shudder even thinking 341 00:16:45,170 --> 00:16:46,810 about setting something like that up 342 00:16:46,810 --> 00:16:49,143 and what messages that would send. 343 00:16:51,066 --> 00:16:55,310 We are capable of engaging and connecting in these ways 344 00:16:55,310 --> 00:16:56,640 and learning about each other 345 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,120 and the fullness of each other's humanity 346 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:02,440 and others in a way that takes time, 347 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:03,600 and it's intentionality. 348 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,610 If we don't take the time to do it we're not going to do it 349 00:17:07,570 --> 00:17:11,400 and so that is the gift of WorshipWeb and the invitation, 350 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:14,100 and the invitation to have the space to talk about this, 351 00:17:14,100 --> 00:17:16,950 is what does it look like to be intentional 352 00:17:16,950 --> 00:17:20,110 to embody a Unitary Universalism 353 00:17:20,110 --> 00:17:25,040 that is not centered in New England Protestant Harvard? 354 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:25,930 - Right, right. 355 00:17:25,930 --> 00:17:26,763 - Right. 356 00:17:26,763 --> 00:17:28,230 - Well and let me again, 357 00:17:28,230 --> 00:17:30,930 I feel like I'm the interpreter for the White viewers. 358 00:17:34,340 --> 00:17:36,270 Near the beginning Julica said something 359 00:17:36,270 --> 00:17:38,210 about we think we have to get it right 360 00:17:38,210 --> 00:17:39,750 and perfectionism we know 361 00:17:39,750 --> 00:17:41,390 is a symptom of White supremacy culture, 362 00:17:41,390 --> 00:17:46,390 but I do want to say that I often tell my parishioners 363 00:17:47,210 --> 00:17:50,740 who are White, 'cause I also serve a congregation, 364 00:17:50,740 --> 00:17:54,720 that if you're uncomfortable it means you're doing something 365 00:17:55,650 --> 00:17:58,700 and that the point, we're going to mess up. 366 00:17:58,700 --> 00:17:59,613 So the question is, 367 00:17:59,613 --> 00:18:03,210 because I think that a lot of White people are often, 368 00:18:03,210 --> 00:18:06,127 first of all they get exasperated and say, 369 00:18:06,127 --> 00:18:09,360 "Well I tried but I got it wrong so I'm gonna stop now." 370 00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:11,120 Well you know what, we're gonna be clumsy 371 00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:12,880 and it's going to feel uncomfortable, 372 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:16,720 and we're going to have to keep staying curious 373 00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:21,720 and that means being uncomfortable and trying new things. 374 00:18:22,050 --> 00:18:25,010 So I'm wondering, maybe Julica you could talk 375 00:18:25,010 --> 00:18:29,593 about the fact that, 'cause you articulate this very well, 376 00:18:30,540 --> 00:18:32,567 feeling like, "Oh I don't want to get in trouble 377 00:18:32,567 --> 00:18:34,760 "or I don't want to do it wrong." 378 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:37,783 What would you suggest White people do with that feeling? 379 00:18:39,380 --> 00:18:40,658 - Um. 380 00:18:40,658 --> 00:18:41,491 (Erika laughs) 381 00:18:41,491 --> 00:18:45,290 Notice it first and be ready for it I guess. 382 00:18:45,290 --> 00:18:46,970 I think it's even before you have it. 383 00:18:46,970 --> 00:18:49,003 So it's more of like a, 384 00:18:50,220 --> 00:18:53,910 you know sometimes I use that model of going into the spaces 385 00:18:53,910 --> 00:18:56,620 of the things that you don't know that you don't know. 386 00:18:56,620 --> 00:18:58,620 So whenever you are challenging yourself 387 00:18:58,620 --> 00:19:00,650 and going outside of your comfort zone, 388 00:19:00,650 --> 00:19:02,670 your body's gonna let you know that 389 00:19:02,670 --> 00:19:04,563 by feeling really uncomfortable. 390 00:19:05,430 --> 00:19:09,920 Our usual response to that is to try to go back 391 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:12,940 to the comfort zone and to not make mistakes. 392 00:19:12,940 --> 00:19:15,317 So when you tell yourself in advance, 393 00:19:15,317 --> 00:19:16,727 "I'm gonna be uncomfortable, 394 00:19:16,727 --> 00:19:18,477 "this is gonna be hard, 395 00:19:18,477 --> 00:19:20,517 "and I look forward to that feeling 396 00:19:20,517 --> 00:19:24,000 "because it's a sign that I'm stretching myself," 397 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,490 then you engage it at a whole other level 398 00:19:26,490 --> 00:19:28,780 and you give yourself a little more compassion 399 00:19:28,780 --> 00:19:29,613 along the way. 400 00:19:33,260 --> 00:19:35,640 I think that the harshest perfectionism 401 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,010 is the one that we direct at ourselves, 402 00:19:38,010 --> 00:19:40,840 although it can also be towards others, 403 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:43,310 but I think that it's just this anxiety 404 00:19:43,310 --> 00:19:46,730 about not being loved and not being good enough, 405 00:19:46,730 --> 00:19:48,320 and I think that 406 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,610 that for me connects to the ethic of control 407 00:19:50,610 --> 00:19:55,170 and it's on a theological basis grounded in the fear 408 00:19:55,170 --> 00:19:57,870 that if I cannot control the outcome of my actions 409 00:19:57,870 --> 00:19:59,540 then I am a bad person. 410 00:19:59,540 --> 00:20:01,100 So if I cannot control worship 411 00:20:01,100 --> 00:20:04,420 and if I cannot control people's experiences of worship 412 00:20:04,420 --> 00:20:06,900 or their interpretation of my words, 413 00:20:06,900 --> 00:20:09,310 I mean it's like three layers of outcomes 414 00:20:09,310 --> 00:20:10,490 that you're trying to control. 415 00:20:10,490 --> 00:20:13,240 You're trying to control the worship process itself, 416 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,570 how the words land, how the person is hearing them, 417 00:20:16,570 --> 00:20:18,570 oh my lord, I mean like that's just so much 418 00:20:18,570 --> 00:20:22,590 and we don't have actual control of those things. 419 00:20:22,590 --> 00:20:25,680 It's a myth. 420 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,720 It's part of how whiteness functions. 421 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:32,680 And so to know that it's more valuable 422 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:36,198 to think about strategic risk taking, 423 00:20:36,198 --> 00:20:38,998 the ethic of risk and trying to, thank you Sharon Welch, 424 00:20:40,180 --> 00:20:42,850 to try to frame it from a perspective of 425 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:46,280 if we collectively take risks, 426 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:47,730 we are going to stretch 427 00:20:47,730 --> 00:20:50,990 and do more and do better than we have in the past. 428 00:20:50,990 --> 00:20:55,490 And so it's kind of like a way back coming from this place 429 00:20:55,490 --> 00:20:58,020 even before I engage in the process 430 00:20:58,020 --> 00:21:02,563 that I think helps folks take more risks. 431 00:21:04,211 --> 00:21:05,610 And I think the other thing worth naming 432 00:21:05,610 --> 00:21:07,320 is when we know better we do better. 433 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:09,687 So maybe some folks watching this video were like, 434 00:21:09,687 --> 00:21:10,957 "Well I thought that the right thing 435 00:21:10,957 --> 00:21:13,777 "was to have particular voices of color 436 00:21:13,777 --> 00:21:16,337 "and now I understand that that's not sufficient 437 00:21:16,337 --> 00:21:18,160 "and so now I'm gonna do something different." 438 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,570 That's great and I really appreciate the original intention 439 00:21:21,570 --> 00:21:25,350 of trying to be inclusive, and it's a yes and, 440 00:21:25,350 --> 00:21:26,940 like here's another opportunity 441 00:21:26,940 --> 00:21:29,220 or another way to look at it. 442 00:21:29,220 --> 00:21:31,108 Aisha what do you think? 443 00:21:31,108 --> 00:21:34,220 - I think one of the ways, I think the discomfort 444 00:21:34,220 --> 00:21:35,530 is how we could spiritually grow. 445 00:21:35,530 --> 00:21:38,690 No one spiritually grows in comfort. 446 00:21:38,690 --> 00:21:41,813 That's just not who how we are as humans, we know that. 447 00:21:42,910 --> 00:21:46,400 I think one of the ways Unitarian Universalism collectively, 448 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,540 since 1961, has failed our people 449 00:21:48,540 --> 00:21:51,460 is we have not invited, engaged, 450 00:21:51,460 --> 00:21:53,340 and taught our people how to sit in discomfort. 451 00:21:53,340 --> 00:21:54,860 So what you just named Julica 452 00:21:54,860 --> 00:21:56,800 about wanting to control outcome really came 453 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:00,410 from however the ministerial formation process happened. 454 00:22:00,410 --> 00:22:01,630 I understand it's changing. 455 00:22:01,630 --> 00:22:04,850 My formation is religious education. 456 00:22:04,850 --> 00:22:07,630 I just took my first seminary course at Starr King 457 00:22:08,510 --> 00:22:10,780 and I think now there's a recognition that 458 00:22:10,780 --> 00:22:13,830 that has not served us as a faith because having, 459 00:22:13,830 --> 00:22:17,713 I mean look at the reaction to the White supremacy teaching. 460 00:22:19,530 --> 00:22:22,370 Christina got hate, I got hate email, she got hate mail 461 00:22:23,220 --> 00:22:25,650 because people were so, it's White rage, 462 00:22:25,650 --> 00:22:27,850 there's a whole book about it, 463 00:22:27,850 --> 00:22:32,400 because we haven't been diligent 464 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,480 and intentional about honoring the journey 465 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:37,370 and teaching our people 466 00:22:37,370 --> 00:22:38,970 to sit in discomfort and holding each other. 467 00:22:38,970 --> 00:22:40,697 I had a congregant once say, 468 00:22:40,697 --> 00:22:42,357 "As soon as somebody dies we go right 469 00:22:42,357 --> 00:22:44,947 "to the celebration of life rather than mourning 470 00:22:44,947 --> 00:22:47,277 "and just sitting in sadness, 471 00:22:47,277 --> 00:22:48,910 "and sitting in the discomfort," 472 00:22:48,910 --> 00:22:51,120 like we just have no capacity for it, 473 00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:52,970 and that does not serve us. 474 00:22:52,970 --> 00:22:56,300 And so getting to, because some of the readings from folks, 475 00:22:56,300 --> 00:22:59,280 some of our amazing talented folks of color, 476 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,720 are uncomfortable and are, 477 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,150 and come from a place of oppression 478 00:23:04,150 --> 00:23:06,730 and they're rooted in liberation work, 479 00:23:06,730 --> 00:23:09,240 and if you've had mostly a life of comfort, 480 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:10,530 not without pain, 481 00:23:10,530 --> 00:23:12,540 but in terms of oppression isn't one of the things 482 00:23:12,540 --> 00:23:14,460 really you've had to deal with, 483 00:23:14,460 --> 00:23:18,040 it's not gonna be frankly not as meaningful 484 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:21,020 or it's not even gonna make as much sense 485 00:23:21,020 --> 00:23:23,080 other than like a movie. 486 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,950 I mean it's gonna be empty spiritually. 487 00:23:25,950 --> 00:23:27,723 - Yeah, that's right, 488 00:23:27,723 --> 00:23:31,090 and that's why WorshipWeb should be content driven, 489 00:23:31,090 --> 00:23:33,180 because when you're trying to find something, 490 00:23:33,180 --> 00:23:34,810 it should be in the context of the content 491 00:23:34,810 --> 00:23:36,030 that you're trying to create, 492 00:23:36,030 --> 00:23:37,360 not the identities of the people. 493 00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:39,057 - Exactly, amen. 494 00:23:39,057 --> 00:23:40,445 Right there. - Correct. 495 00:23:40,445 --> 00:23:41,730 - Right there. - Correct. 496 00:23:41,730 --> 00:23:43,170 - Right there. 497 00:23:43,170 --> 00:23:44,580 - So what we're talking about, 498 00:23:44,580 --> 00:23:48,400 I mean we're sort of coming back to the why. 499 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:49,810 Julica said, "Why are you doing it?" 500 00:23:49,810 --> 00:23:52,563 and I will just say that I have wondered 501 00:23:57,170 --> 00:24:00,367 whether when White people with good intention say, 502 00:24:00,367 --> 00:24:02,280 "Well we're trying to include 503 00:24:03,127 --> 00:24:05,917 "at least one person of color in our liturgy," 504 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,930 I could imagine, especially if I were a person of color, 505 00:24:11,930 --> 00:24:15,070 not only that feeling like a check the box activity 506 00:24:15,070 --> 00:24:18,190 but sort of well you wanna feel good about yourself 507 00:24:18,190 --> 00:24:19,863 and know that you did something. 508 00:24:21,340 --> 00:24:25,670 I say this as a White person who has done this, 509 00:24:25,670 --> 00:24:27,913 who didn't know better, 510 00:24:29,590 --> 00:24:34,527 and this isn't about us as White people feeling good 511 00:24:35,430 --> 00:24:37,753 about we did the work, 512 00:24:39,050 --> 00:24:41,900 it's about are we building something? 513 00:24:41,900 --> 00:24:44,370 Are we creating systems and structures 514 00:24:45,430 --> 00:24:48,563 where we are collaborating, 515 00:24:49,430 --> 00:24:53,613 inviting in the lived experience, creating relationships, 516 00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,310 and especially for White, 517 00:24:58,310 --> 00:25:00,260 willing to be really uncomfortable 518 00:25:00,260 --> 00:25:03,560 in the service of growing spiritually, collectively? 519 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:04,693 Do I have that right? 520 00:25:07,750 --> 00:25:08,600 - I think so. 521 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:13,010 I mean it's a paradigm shift 522 00:25:13,010 --> 00:25:16,393 that I think is starting in a lot of places. 523 00:25:20,220 --> 00:25:23,262 There's a book coming out that I can't wait for, 524 00:25:23,262 --> 00:25:25,760 and I hope everybody who's in leadership. 525 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:27,400 It's "Mistakes and Miracles," 526 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,320 it's written Reverend Nancy Palmer Jones 527 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,390 and Lay Leader Karin Lin. 528 00:25:31,390 --> 00:25:32,993 It's an extraordinary book. 529 00:25:34,260 --> 00:25:36,330 They called me five years ago and it started, 530 00:25:36,330 --> 00:25:40,070 and I've kind of talked to them a couple times a year 531 00:25:40,070 --> 00:25:40,903 through it all, 532 00:25:40,903 --> 00:25:44,987 and one of the stories, a White person said, 533 00:25:44,987 --> 00:25:48,217 "What's wrong with having a mostly White congregation 534 00:25:48,217 --> 00:25:49,767 "where I can feel comfortable?" 535 00:25:52,615 --> 00:25:53,730 It was a gift to read that 536 00:25:53,730 --> 00:25:55,910 because White people won't say that out loud 537 00:25:55,910 --> 00:25:57,870 and the only way we can talk about it 538 00:25:57,870 --> 00:26:00,960 is if somebody names what we already know, 539 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,260 that that's what people want. 540 00:26:04,260 --> 00:26:09,230 So how do we embody, embrace, invite people 541 00:26:09,230 --> 00:26:12,240 into a Unitarian Universalism 542 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,180 that isn't for one group of people? 543 00:26:14,180 --> 00:26:16,660 One group of people do not own this faith, right? 544 00:26:16,660 --> 00:26:19,050 I would highly recommend anybody looking 545 00:26:19,050 --> 00:26:20,614 for WorshipWeb material, 546 00:26:20,614 --> 00:26:22,220 (dogs barking) sorry those are my puppies, 547 00:26:22,220 --> 00:26:25,040 go to the Commission on Institutional Change blog 548 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,010 and read a lot of their work. 549 00:26:27,010 --> 00:26:28,340 It is so compelling 550 00:26:28,340 --> 00:26:33,340 and it invites us into a richer engagement and embodiment 551 00:26:33,850 --> 00:26:38,000 of Unitarian Universalism that will serve us so well 552 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,163 and we can live out this faith just so much more deeply. 553 00:26:42,090 --> 00:26:43,072 That's my suggestion. 554 00:26:43,072 --> 00:26:45,320 What do you think Julica? 555 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:46,240 - Yeah I think that's right. 556 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:50,120 I think that all of what we're pointing to is to go deeper, 557 00:26:50,120 --> 00:26:51,660 look for more. 558 00:26:51,660 --> 00:26:56,660 Finding representational readings is not the path. 559 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:00,930 Thank you for trying and do this other thing instead. 560 00:27:00,930 --> 00:27:05,930 Yeah, so to me that feels more like I'd be repeating myself. 561 00:27:06,730 --> 00:27:07,710 I also-- - Well you-- 562 00:27:07,710 --> 00:27:08,543 Go ahead. 563 00:27:08,543 --> 00:27:10,330 - No, what go. 564 00:27:10,330 --> 00:27:11,163 - Well I was gonna say 565 00:27:11,163 --> 00:27:13,963 just finding representational reading, 566 00:27:16,290 --> 00:27:19,113 you're going to miss out on what could've, 567 00:27:22,020 --> 00:27:24,830 it is not what we want for Unitary Universalism. 568 00:27:24,830 --> 00:27:26,697 I'm also repeating myself so you go. 569 00:27:26,697 --> 00:27:29,447 (women laughing) 570 00:27:34,930 --> 00:27:37,360 - I think the other place that I go to 571 00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:42,360 is do we still need to give folks more concrete suggestions 572 00:27:46,290 --> 00:27:50,123 that give them more scaffolding? 573 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:55,960 Right now, because I do so much of my work with White folks 574 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:57,900 and I see their real struggle, 575 00:27:57,900 --> 00:27:59,480 like they really are struggling. 576 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:00,940 The people that come to me are already, 577 00:28:00,940 --> 00:28:02,210 they're ready to pay for coaching, 578 00:28:02,210 --> 00:28:03,660 they're ready to do the work, 579 00:28:04,890 --> 00:28:09,890 and I don't think that we have enough space 580 00:28:10,100 --> 00:28:12,580 for exploration and permission yet. 581 00:28:12,580 --> 00:28:14,350 I think that that's part of 582 00:28:14,350 --> 00:28:16,580 what we also need to create a little bit more of 583 00:28:16,580 --> 00:28:19,660 because I think that the panic 584 00:28:19,660 --> 00:28:22,150 and the don't change things out from under me comes 585 00:28:22,150 --> 00:28:27,150 from lack of containers and safety of exploration. 586 00:28:27,230 --> 00:28:29,530 So I think that, I guess what I'm leaning towards 587 00:28:29,530 --> 00:28:31,510 is what if worship like everything else 588 00:28:31,510 --> 00:28:33,080 is really about faith formation 589 00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:38,080 and has much more of an explorative and experimental feeling 590 00:28:39,410 --> 00:28:44,410 rather than worship being the culmination? 591 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:47,820 I feel like ministers in particular, 592 00:28:47,820 --> 00:28:50,370 and one of the reasons I've resisted the ordination path 593 00:28:50,370 --> 00:28:53,120 is because this worship thing 594 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,960 has to be like the shiniest, best, 595 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,405 most fabulous moment of your ministry, 596 00:28:59,405 --> 00:29:02,150 and to do that every Sunday, oh my lord. 597 00:29:02,150 --> 00:29:05,530 I mean no wonder ministers are crispy in May and June. 598 00:29:05,530 --> 00:29:08,560 That's just really hard to produce and produce and produce. 599 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,460 So I think that there's a deeper paradigm shift 600 00:29:11,460 --> 00:29:13,600 around faith formation as well. 601 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,050 Those thoughts are not fully formed 602 00:29:15,050 --> 00:29:18,040 which is why my sentences are a little jumbley. 603 00:29:19,730 --> 00:29:22,460 - I think Erika, I think, unless I was on the wrong page, 604 00:29:22,460 --> 00:29:24,170 but I think you have webinars 605 00:29:24,170 --> 00:29:27,450 on White supremacy and worship. 606 00:29:27,450 --> 00:29:29,020 I think that's there on WorshipWeb 607 00:29:29,020 --> 00:29:31,620 and kind of lead, you can almost have a, 608 00:29:31,620 --> 00:29:34,220 well I know you're doing this webinar which is awesome, 609 00:29:34,220 --> 00:29:36,230 and here are some books for you to read, 610 00:29:36,230 --> 00:29:38,020 here are some, if you are thinking 611 00:29:38,020 --> 00:29:40,210 you wanna just look up somebody's reading 612 00:29:40,210 --> 00:29:42,683 who is a leader of color, 613 00:29:44,210 --> 00:29:45,430 it's part of the scaffolding 614 00:29:45,430 --> 00:29:47,440 which I think you already do some of. 615 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,210 And honestly, I don't wanna be unkind, 616 00:29:50,210 --> 00:29:51,990 I'm trying to stay away from judgmental words, 617 00:29:51,990 --> 00:29:53,780 but the word that came to mind 618 00:29:53,780 --> 00:29:55,980 that I'm gonna say but I'm not gonna use is lazy. 619 00:29:55,980 --> 00:29:58,290 It's like why the easy way out? 620 00:29:58,290 --> 00:30:00,200 That's not a faithful thing. 621 00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:01,480 This is all faith formation. 622 00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:03,100 What I love about being a religious educator 623 00:30:03,100 --> 00:30:04,430 is I'm story-based. 624 00:30:04,430 --> 00:30:05,720 I have to think of stories 625 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,230 that are going to illustrate what I, 626 00:30:07,230 --> 00:30:11,610 and so I absolutely make sure I'm telling stories of folks 627 00:30:11,610 --> 00:30:13,050 who are either underrepresented, 628 00:30:13,050 --> 00:30:15,990 and I tell the same story maybe a couple times a year 629 00:30:15,990 --> 00:30:18,370 because it's important that you know this story. 630 00:30:18,370 --> 00:30:19,800 It's important that you understand 631 00:30:19,800 --> 00:30:23,960 and it's contextual, and it kind of invites you 632 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:25,810 to think about something in a different way, 633 00:30:25,810 --> 00:30:27,700 so it's all part of storytelling. 634 00:30:27,700 --> 00:30:30,210 It's all faith formation. 635 00:30:30,210 --> 00:30:33,000 So I think you're already doing some of that 636 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,450 it sounds like on WorshipWeb and doing more of it, 637 00:30:35,450 --> 00:30:36,470 and it's up to us 638 00:30:36,470 --> 00:30:39,819 to genuinely live out the living tradition. 639 00:30:39,819 --> 00:30:41,560 Living, operative word on living. 640 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,460 - No, for sure it's living and it's a growing thing, 641 00:30:44,460 --> 00:30:45,810 but I do wanna push back 642 00:30:45,810 --> 00:30:48,220 because I don't think that it's lazy. 643 00:30:48,220 --> 00:30:49,423 I think it's scary. 644 00:30:50,910 --> 00:30:52,990 I personally think that more people 645 00:30:52,990 --> 00:30:54,340 are afraid to do it wrong 646 00:30:54,340 --> 00:30:58,478 because they are still stuck in perfectionism, than lazy. 647 00:30:58,478 --> 00:31:00,780 Like yeah I think maybe there are some lazy people 648 00:31:00,780 --> 00:31:05,090 but most people I know are paralyzed, which is different. 649 00:31:05,090 --> 00:31:06,520 - I'll take that word back. 650 00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,210 I will own that that was an unkind word. 651 00:31:09,210 --> 00:31:11,035 It's just-- - No no no, I just-- 652 00:31:11,035 --> 00:31:13,320 - I owned it. - I don't see it as unkind. 653 00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,479 - No I just wanted to be right about the diagnosis. 654 00:31:15,479 --> 00:31:16,620 (women laughing) 655 00:31:16,620 --> 00:31:17,830 I want to name what's happening 656 00:31:17,830 --> 00:31:21,500 because if we can name it we can address it, 657 00:31:21,500 --> 00:31:23,777 and the lazy piece is more like, 658 00:31:23,777 --> 00:31:24,980 "Oh I don't want to," 659 00:31:24,980 --> 00:31:26,970 and I suppose we all have that sometimes, 660 00:31:26,970 --> 00:31:30,150 I mean I certainly do when I'm challenging my own ableism. 661 00:31:30,150 --> 00:31:31,750 Did I just use the word paralyzing 662 00:31:31,750 --> 00:31:32,840 a couple of sentences ago? 663 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:34,710 Yes I did, sorry. 664 00:31:34,710 --> 00:31:39,050 Like yes, sometimes I am lazy about challenging myself, 665 00:31:39,050 --> 00:31:43,270 but that's not my usual. 666 00:31:43,270 --> 00:31:47,210 My usual is I don't know if I'm gonna do this right, 667 00:31:47,210 --> 00:31:48,990 and therefore I don't wanna do it. 668 00:31:48,990 --> 00:31:52,650 - And we know, and I think that's because, as I can attest, 669 00:31:52,650 --> 00:31:57,400 when we fumble and when we don't really have practice 670 00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,370 in this as White people, 671 00:31:59,370 --> 00:32:04,370 we know that it is more likely, the more risks we take, 672 00:32:05,890 --> 00:32:09,080 that we might get the feedback that we've caused harm 673 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,170 and then we're gonna have to have, 674 00:32:11,170 --> 00:32:13,520 we're gonna have to deepen the discomfort 675 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:18,520 by having some sort of reparative redemptive conversation 676 00:32:22,100 --> 00:32:24,200 and that takes so much energy. 677 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,917 So the one thing I just wanna lift up is yes, 678 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,180 and yes Aisha I will absolutely link 679 00:32:34,180 --> 00:32:37,705 to a lot of the books you've mentioned and the blog, 680 00:32:37,705 --> 00:32:40,670 the Commission on Institutional Change blog. 681 00:32:40,670 --> 00:32:42,940 And what we're talking about 682 00:32:42,940 --> 00:32:47,790 can require huge amounts of emotional energy 683 00:32:47,790 --> 00:32:52,790 and my guess is that that's a new experience, 684 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:57,210 that is White people kind of like learning 685 00:32:57,210 --> 00:33:00,390 what it's like to have lived under a rock of privilege 686 00:33:00,390 --> 00:33:04,887 because you are both nodding very very vigorously right now. 687 00:33:04,887 --> 00:33:05,750 (women laughing) 688 00:33:05,750 --> 00:33:06,610 Right? 689 00:33:06,610 --> 00:33:07,890 - Yeah. 690 00:33:07,890 --> 00:33:09,820 Yeah that for sure-- - Can one of you say 691 00:33:09,820 --> 00:33:13,053 why you're nodding and what you know about, 692 00:33:13,980 --> 00:33:16,923 can one of you kind of put your spin on what I just said? 693 00:33:19,570 --> 00:33:24,380 - I think the emotional energy of repair and 694 00:33:26,420 --> 00:33:29,770 of working through a mistake 695 00:33:29,770 --> 00:33:31,810 is something I've had to do, 696 00:33:31,810 --> 00:33:34,250 especially I constantly hurt White people's feelings. 697 00:33:34,250 --> 00:33:35,760 I constantly have to watch what I say. 698 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:37,130 I'm constantly around egg shells. 699 00:33:37,130 --> 00:33:39,480 It's actually gotten better since the teaching. 700 00:33:42,054 --> 00:33:44,540 And that emotional energy, 701 00:33:44,540 --> 00:33:48,313 I cannot quite explain to you how exhausting it is, 702 00:33:49,521 --> 00:33:52,830 and what you just named, that this is new for folks, 703 00:33:52,830 --> 00:33:55,470 did you call it living under the rock of privilege? 704 00:33:55,470 --> 00:33:56,630 - The rock of White privilege. 705 00:33:56,630 --> 00:33:57,490 I've never had 706 00:33:57,490 --> 00:33:59,760 to have these uncomfortable conversations before. 707 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,320 - And had to repair and have to, 708 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:05,950 the idea that people react so negatively 709 00:34:05,950 --> 00:34:07,250 to learning about microaggressions, 710 00:34:07,250 --> 00:34:09,500 well now I can't say anything, and it's like, 711 00:34:10,550 --> 00:34:13,740 you know how much I can't say to people, 712 00:34:13,740 --> 00:34:17,750 that I've had to modify and talk about code switching 713 00:34:17,750 --> 00:34:20,913 around White people, no matter who, ministers? 714 00:34:22,393 --> 00:34:24,550 Religious educators, they're not exempt either. 715 00:34:24,550 --> 00:34:27,440 I've had to constantly monitor, navigate, 716 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:28,790 and I know you have too Julica, 717 00:34:28,790 --> 00:34:30,860 and other, my colleagues of color. 718 00:34:30,860 --> 00:34:32,880 We talk about it quite often. 719 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,470 And so now the invitation is wow you get to do this 720 00:34:36,470 --> 00:34:38,863 and it's where our resiliency, 721 00:34:39,860 --> 00:34:43,550 nobody should have to be oppressed to learn resiliency, 722 00:34:43,550 --> 00:34:44,913 and yet here we are. 723 00:34:48,730 --> 00:34:51,333 The invitation for Unitarian Universalists, 724 00:34:51,333 --> 00:34:53,430 revelation is not sealed. 725 00:34:53,430 --> 00:34:57,450 So now the rock of White privilege is being removed from you 726 00:34:57,450 --> 00:35:00,940 and yeah it is uncomfortable 727 00:35:00,940 --> 00:35:03,320 and it's where spiritual growth will come from 728 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,090 and your life will be richer 729 00:35:05,090 --> 00:35:10,090 by having a different lens and experience. 730 00:35:11,210 --> 00:35:13,630 And it is exhausting, and that's okay. 731 00:35:13,630 --> 00:35:14,780 You're gonna be okay. 732 00:35:14,780 --> 00:35:19,780 And learning how to repair, my hope is that our default, 733 00:35:19,870 --> 00:35:23,140 instead of folks who use their pledge as a weapon, 734 00:35:23,140 --> 00:35:25,480 instead of folks who if I don't get what I want 735 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:26,313 then I'm outta here, 736 00:35:26,313 --> 00:35:28,700 instead of going toward annihilation, 737 00:35:28,700 --> 00:35:31,420 if our default is going toward connection 738 00:35:31,420 --> 00:35:35,379 through the discomfort, going toward each other and saying, 739 00:35:35,379 --> 00:35:37,617 "I accept responsibility. 740 00:35:37,617 --> 00:35:38,637 "I understand impact. 741 00:35:38,637 --> 00:35:39,857 "Doesn't matter what my intentions are. 742 00:35:39,857 --> 00:35:41,812 "I understand good intentions 743 00:35:41,812 --> 00:35:44,207 "but regardless of what my intentions are, 744 00:35:44,207 --> 00:35:49,207 "I hear and understand that my impact on you is negative." 745 00:35:50,730 --> 00:35:51,727 What I now say to people is, 746 00:35:51,727 --> 00:35:53,117 "How can I make this right? 747 00:35:53,117 --> 00:35:56,790 "What can I do or say that will repair this?" 748 00:35:56,790 --> 00:35:59,660 My goal, my hope as a religious educator 749 00:35:59,660 --> 00:36:04,660 is what tools do I need to A, learn myself, model for folks, 750 00:36:05,230 --> 00:36:09,040 and create spaces so folks can learn how to do this. 751 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,130 At our congregation we're doing restorative circles 752 00:36:11,130 --> 00:36:11,963 more and more. 753 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:17,490 I could just say when a budget meeting, 754 00:36:17,490 --> 00:36:18,620 last week leading up 755 00:36:18,620 --> 00:36:20,810 to a vote we had in our congregation yesterday, 756 00:36:20,810 --> 00:36:21,900 it started to get tense. 757 00:36:21,900 --> 00:36:23,170 There were about 25 people in the room 758 00:36:23,170 --> 00:36:26,060 and the Board President said let's do a circle 759 00:36:26,060 --> 00:36:27,720 because we've been doing them now the past year. 760 00:36:27,720 --> 00:36:30,030 Everyone sat in a circle, everyone was heard, 761 00:36:30,030 --> 00:36:32,440 a talking piece was passed around. 762 00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,090 I'm like, "Oh oh, this is why I do this work." 763 00:36:35,090 --> 00:36:36,500 And that is not something 764 00:36:36,500 --> 00:36:38,800 that never would have happened even six months ago. 765 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:39,780 So that's the gift. 766 00:36:39,780 --> 00:36:40,760 And it's not that it was easy, 767 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:42,550 it's not that everyone ended up agreeing, 768 00:36:42,550 --> 00:36:44,860 it was that there was space made 769 00:36:44,860 --> 00:36:49,610 instead of one person shouting at another even tensely. 770 00:36:49,610 --> 00:36:51,410 People in Northwest don't shout, that's Jersey, 771 00:36:51,410 --> 00:36:55,100 but here like you know tensely (laughs) talking 772 00:36:55,100 --> 00:36:58,133 to each other in a snippy voice. 773 00:36:59,770 --> 00:37:04,730 So yes, this is all uncomfortable and that is okay, 774 00:37:04,730 --> 00:37:06,640 and that is what we're here to do. 775 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:08,140 We're not a country club. 776 00:37:08,140 --> 00:37:09,653 This is what spiritual growth is all about. 777 00:37:09,653 --> 00:37:11,590 Even if you don't like the word spiritual, 778 00:37:11,590 --> 00:37:14,150 it's your emotional growth, 779 00:37:14,150 --> 00:37:16,700 it's whatever word you wanna use. 780 00:37:16,700 --> 00:37:19,310 - And it's so what we all long for. 781 00:37:19,310 --> 00:37:22,500 Like I have yet to meet a Unitarian Universalist 782 00:37:22,500 --> 00:37:26,750 that does not have their soul speak towards this, 783 00:37:26,750 --> 00:37:28,650 this love of community, this ideal. 784 00:37:28,650 --> 00:37:31,830 I mean this is what we want, it's who we are, 785 00:37:31,830 --> 00:37:35,453 and we have always been, at our best. 786 00:37:36,540 --> 00:37:39,680 So it's just, we just need to continue that, 787 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:41,143 continue that commitment. 788 00:37:44,030 --> 00:37:48,126 - Thank you both very very much. 789 00:37:48,126 --> 00:37:51,300 I thank you on behalf of everyone who will watch this, 790 00:37:51,300 --> 00:37:55,550 and I thank all of you who made it this far 791 00:37:55,550 --> 00:37:57,660 and who are still willing to be curious 792 00:37:57,660 --> 00:38:00,573 and believe in the promise of who we can be 793 00:38:00,573 --> 00:38:03,660 in a liberated Unitarian Universalism, 794 00:38:03,660 --> 00:38:05,740 to quote Christina Rivera, 795 00:38:05,740 --> 00:38:08,540 and I want to thank you very very much. 796 00:38:08,540 --> 00:38:09,450 - Thank you 797 00:38:09,450 --> 00:38:11,148 and blessings every month. - Thank you Erika. 798 00:38:11,148 --> 00:38:12,898 Blessings, thank you.